Practical Ideas for Growth Podcast

00:00:33 TY HENDRICKSON:

Well, I'm so excited to get into this topic. This is something I'm super passionate about, you know, selling just has this bad stigma in our industry. In the accounting world that it's some pushy, you know, uncomfortable thing that people have to do in order to, you know. Become a partner. Become, you know, a, you know, a real critical person in a. Firm and it it seems so scary, because when people start doing this, they look at, you know, people like you that that just do a phenomenal job at it and you're, it's your job to. Be a revenue driver. And it's, you know, it's it's something that comes natural to you, but that's not how everybody starts. And I think that's what the scary thing is is people see. All the success. And they don't know where to start. Know how to. Start and they think, gosh, I'll never be able to do what he's doing. And So what we're really just trying. To do is is. Help people relate right and help people see that selling shouldn't be that scary, but that we all also have these same fears, so I'm going to ask you that $1,000,000 question to kind of kick us off what is or was your biggest fear when it comes to selling?

00:01:45 Ralph McNamara

So that's pretty easy. You know, I'm not a CPA yet. I sell CPA services. So often times and then from the very beginning when I was involved in an opportunity, I felt like I needed to be the subject matter expert. I needed to. Have that expertise and so often on those initial sales calls. I didn't have an answer for the prospect. They asked me the question and I was just totally flat footed and I think it just took a little bit of. Experience time bit of failure. To realize that I didn't need to be that expert, and that oftentimes when I was meeting with the prospect they were meeting with me because we had a relationship, someone that more likely than not, like me, they trusted me and they were just looking to see if I could answer some questions in terms of navigating. My firm and you could help it. So I think over time, what I realized is I am not going to know every single service that our firm offers, COP and Ross said that we've broken it down to 23 different service lines, eight key industries and it's really hard to be the master of all of those things. So I'm. Comfortable telling a prospect. I don't know if I can get you in the hands of the right. Person who can't answer that.

00:03:03 TY HENDRICKSON:

I I love that you know, it's something that's come up on probably every one of these conversations is if somebody tries to tell you. They're the expert at. They're lying to you, right? You got to. Get comfortable saying I don't know which is.

00:03:17 Ralph McNamara

But there are only a few people in our firm that I've ever seen that are truly that what I would call Swiss army knife. And it is a tool for every single situation and can't answer those those questions in a a real meaningful way.

00:03:34 TY HENDRICKSON:

I'm glad you all got a couple. Of Swiss army knives. So tell me real quick before we jump into this because I know you're in a different situation. You said you're not a CPA, but selling CPA services. So tell me a little bit more about your role in the firm, how you got there and and kind of. That back story.

00:03:52 Ralph McNamara

So many years ago I was recruited to the firm to sell computer forensic services. The firm was launching a new service line and there was a new service line in the industry where lawyers had to hire an expert to help them with discovery. Actually. Well, well, I didn't know a lot about that. What I didn't know was over 1000 lawyers. I live in South Florida. I've grown up in the legal industry and so I knew that I knew the right people that we needed to reach. I just didn't know how to explain to them what we did and why they wanted to use us, but I knew I could at. Least get the door open. So that's where I started. Overtime I mastered selling, we're introducing that service to people over the years, I've sold every single service in the firm and and in that process I've developed a playbook on conversation starters and. Things to to. Basically, ask the the prospect opportunity triggers things to listen for, and then I started training people on it and those two elements combined really put me on a partner track and I became a partner several years ago and now I lead business development for our firm. We just crossed over the. $100 million in revenue threshold. So myself and my team are are a big part of that, that ruggedy group.

00:05:20 TY HENDRICKSON:

So I don't think I knew that that that's how you started at the firm. That's a, that's a pretty interesting story. I think. It's also interesting that you talked about when you were doing this, developing this playbook that you used, and then you ended up using to train other people. And I think obviously me being in a training role forever, right, I that's how I learned, right? Is it trying to figure it out for myself before I can teach others and putting processes. Together and and I love all that so. Is that kind of how you learned each different product line or service line as you got into it and what what did you kind of pull together? For this playbook.

00:05:58 Ralph McNamara

You know, over time, I know because I was selling every service and I was talking to prospects about every service when I would be going out to a meeting, I would interview a number of people in a particular. Department I you know. Where our insurance clients look like and what's a really good client? And what's our differentiator and you know as we know in the industry differentiation and insurance is is a difficult thing to to describe. But we found that it, you know, it really lied around industry expertise. And so then I had a series of questions on industry and what makes. Us different in an. Industry and what's our value? So I think just because I was curious. And I created a process where every time I interviewed someone, I sort of got the same elements of what I was looking for. What are the number of clients we serve in this area? What are things that we do differently? What are things that customers are are the top of mind and with an issue? And and what can we differentiate? Where do we see that we're winning more? And I started really putting that down. Pen to paper and and over the years I have a 50 page pitch book that I share with new employees at the firm and overnight I could get people ramped up and knowing everything about the firm that took me years to develop and it would have really accelerated my career if someone would have given that to me when I first joined.

00:07:26 TY HENDRICKSON:

I love that. I and I I feel like this kind of leads into the next question where where was that turning point that you kind of felt on your journey? Because I know you said when you started, the biggest fear was I'm not a CPA, but I've got to sell these services that I don't know how to do. You could do them. I'm confident of that, but then when your job. And you didn't have to know it so. What was the turning point of kind? Of getting past that.

00:07:50 Ralph McNamara

Well, I would say I've been very fortunate to work with top level professional service firms. I came to the accounting industry before being in legal for 14 years. I had also been with another accounting firm and what I can tell you is that I had been on several sales. Calls many, many sales. Called with individuals that I have truly respected from a technical perspective. And then when I saw them in a sales role and I dare say do less than a stellar job, sometimes embarrassing. I realize, man, I can do better than that. It really wasn't that. I couldn't be all all of this. Great thing and and and. Be better than everyone, but I just I I knew I couldn't be worse than what I. Had already witnessed, so it gave. Me the confidence to go out and in certain instances. Like I had and. And for example, when I joined Kaufman, a very capable technical individual, but was a self professor, not salesperson. And in in his case, he preferred that I go out and sell it. So I would meet with lawyers. I would describe what we would do. I would walk them through an engagement. I would challenge them on things that they wanted to. Do in the engagement. That ultimately got to the engagement letter, and they never met anyone in the firm other than me. And that's when I started moving into that area where I could sell, you know, different services and and I felt like I owned it. I didn't need to rely and have a crutch of that professional with me on a sales call.

00:09:26 TY HENDRICKSON:

That is a major turning point. I I know in a past life when I trained salespeople and they were selling bring this up because they were selling the the Research Services to attorneys too. And I remember on. One sales call. The attorney looked at the. The individual that was selling us. When, when did you graduate law school and she? Goes oh God, no. I did not know. Do any of that? And you know, it gets that point when you just get confident in what you're saying, that you, you know, you know what you're saying and and that. Confidence comes across and so. You know I. Think that's a big piece of it, but I. I I love how you kind of talk about. How you sell and I think everybody kind of defines selling differently. So how do you define selling? In your role.

00:10:13 Ralph McNamara

Yeah, whether it's my role or anyone in the firm, I don't consider myself selling. If I did, I wouldn't do this. I was well, I might have the personality of a salesperson. I don't really feel like I'm trying to convert you into a customer because I have. Something that you need? I look at it as I'm here to help you, and I might have something that can solve one of your problems. And even if I can't solve your problem, I'm happy to help you find a solution and to this day I think that's where I've had my greatest success. Oftentimes not being able to solve clients. Problem and helping them find a third party solution that isn't our firm. In those instances, I feel like I built an incredible amount of credibility because I care just as much to find them. Another solution, then I cared. If it was. An internal solution and that we were selling it. So that is my approach. It happens to be very well aligned with our firms approach. It's how we train and coach our professionals to be helpers. You know, we don't call it cross selling, we call it cross helping and we genuinely. We're here to help our clients, not to sell them more stuff. More service if they don't. Need that they need to.

00:11:38 TY HENDRICKSON:

Love that I I love the solutions part of it, because if people feel like they're buying, there's a lot of hesitancy. If they feel like that you truly care and that you're you're just helping them, that's it's it's an easy sell. And that's for story for another day. But the whole thing on getting your worth and getting the right. If you position it the right way, if you're finding their right problem and you have the right solution for it. Price doesn't tend to be an issue, but that's that's for another day. So you know, I know you said that that's kind of how you approach this at your firm as a whole. So how does your firm approach the growth culture? How does it play into career progression? You know, what do you, how do you guys? Build this business development or growth culture.

00:12:29 Ralph McNamara

Sure. I mean that from from day one when you joined our firm, we talked about the importance of the firm's brand, what that brand means to us and what it looks like in the Community, how we trust for meetings, how we interact with our prospects. It's the, the, the part and parcel of who we are. We also in that initial day will tell them the importance of rain making. And we incentivize them with a an origination bonus so that any new piece of business that an employee brings into the firm, they'll get a piece of that business for a certain period of time, regardless of the services we offer. So beyond even the initial sale, if there are any additional sales within that first. We, we honor it and we incentivize and I can tell stories of a young man that was 2 doors down from my office who happened to. Be a lawyer. And said I'm not a sales guy. Well, you're personable. You're going to meet people so you can come to our monthly lunches. So we call emerging rain makers and we have sales training for everyone in the firm and we buy lunch. So I told them we buy you lunch. So sure enough, he goes to enough of these things and finally goes out to get some Cle. He's a lawyer, not CPE. And he sits next to an individual and. The individual starts talking to him. About you know what they're doing their business and. That they need some help with their. Internal audit and Sarbanes-Oxley compliance. And that gentleman says, you know, I just came from the training in our firm. I didn't know we were doing that, but we do a lot of that kind of work. I'd love to introduce you to someone. He comes back. He texts me, I think. I got a fish on the line. Back in the office, we set up some follow up meetings. It turned out to be $300,000 a year engagement. We did that engagement. For three years and that young man was able to then. And purchased the pool that his wife had been nagging him about for years, purely on the bonus he got from collections on that origination. And so now he is out there hunting and looking for other countries, and in fact, just a few weeks ago, we named him. A partner in the firm.

00:14:45 TY HENDRICKSON:

Oh, that's awesome.

00:14:46 Ralph McNamara

Yeah, I mean, it works. Yeah, it's it's a believer. Just keeping your eyes and ears open for opportunity and being able to just connect the dots.

00:14:55 TY HENDRICKSON:

It I think it's that curious mindset that makes such a difference because it it really is just a tiny little switch. And if you flip it and you just start listening, you're going to hear way more than you've ever expected to.

00:15:11 Ralph McNamara

Well, I tell you, I can tell you the similar story that happened to me and it's when I got caught flat footed and that was that we were in a very tall building. We're in Miami, so down on brick. And I got in the elevator a couple different people standing in the elevator. Army knife of a partner that I described earlier gets into the same elevator and I'm just sitting there quiet on the. Elevator right up. What does he do? He engages with everyone in the elevator. Hi, my name is such and such. And I'm with this firm. What do you do? And by the time we got. Off the elevator, he had an. Opportunity and it's active and just. Engaging with people and I was like son of a gun. You just never know. And you need to be on inquisitive and just being open.

00:15:59 TY HENDRICKSON:

Yeah, I I love that and I love. That with as. Successful as you are, you're. Like man, he did it better than. Me, you know.

00:16:07 Ralph McNamara

I got killed. It's embarrassing, but it's the reality.

00:16:11 TY HENDRICKSON:

Well, and I think that's a big part of this is always learning because selling can be kind of hard on the ego, right? You know, nose are not personal, but it's hard to take things not personal, right? And so, you know, it's I I feel like I'm always asking people what they're doing, how they're doing, just to find, you know, new ideas and be creative. And that's part of the. Inquisitive piece of it, right?

00:16:33 Ralph McNamara

Sure, sure for sure.

00:16:35 TY HENDRICKSON:

So you know, I always want to ask, you know, how has this embracing selling impacted your career and your progression? I think I know, but I'm I want to hear from you.

00:16:47 Ralph McNamara

And I said I'm I'm at a stage in my life, but I I you look in the rear of your mirror and you don't realize all of the little baby steps that it took to get to where you're at. But now that I'm here, I I feel so blessed that I've had the influence of the people around me and the opportunities that have presented themselves. But then I guess at every stage. It was either preparing me for or being ready for that. Community. So just in. Terms of the quality. Of life becoming a partner in my firm, I joined our firm 14 years ago. Never in my mind, would have thought that I would become a partner in an accounting firm. Never would I have thought that I would be leading business development for call it a top 50 IPA, firm and and. Going very rapidly, we had 17% organic this past year. I know they're, you know, all firms have had a lot. Of tailwinds in. 22 but we're starting 20, our fiscal 2023 very strong. I'm blessed to have a wonderful team, very talented. They challenge me every day and then that gives me an opportunity to to really have a wonderful life with my family. Very interesting friends, very interesting clients that are friends that challenge you individually, professionally, to see the world a little different. And so as far. As I am in my career. I almost feel like I'm starting all over again because I have so much more. To learn and so much more to grow.

00:18:12 TY HENDRICKSON:

Yeah, I I love that. It's so hard to see the forest from the trees. Right. And so I I do feel like if you would have told me when I graduated college with an accounting degree that I would be training accountants on sales skills. I would have never, never. In a million years and. No, you're a liar. So. So it's it's interesting. But I feel like every single thing that that is. That got me to this point. So I think that's very valuable lesson for everybody out there, right. Every piece of. It and you just don't know where it's going to take you, but you can't go from, you know, starting out to being in charge of all of the growth as a partner in an accounting firm. Overnight, you said it was 14 years at the firm. And so it it takes, you know it. Takes those little building blocks. So, you know, I know we've talked about a lot, but I always want to leave with the the final question. You know what is the one thing that you wish someone had told you? Or maybe they did? You just didn't listen when you started your selling journey.

00:19:16 Ralph McNamara

I guess it would be stop selling when the buyer is ready to buy, though in my early days I would just keep pushing through on the sale even though they said yes and I keep describing how it's going to benefit them and how we're going to save them money and how we're going to do it quickly and uncertain things, this is. Watching me fail because I oversold and so don't oversell. If the buyer tells you they're ready to buy, shut up and say, alright, well, let's get started and let's work on the engagement letter and move on. And I can tell you that I now do some coaching on a personal level to clients and others and recently went with the client. To a very major sale. Walked into the room. The buyer had all of. Her people sitting around the table, she was ready to buy first my 5 minutes. She's like, I love this pride. I brought my entire executive team with me. We're ready to learn this platform. We're ready to move forward. My client kept selling. And sell it. And now I kicked him once under the table and a. Second time and. Third time, we then spent another 40 minutes with this client talking about all the features and benefits and how it's gonna help him. And the more he talk, the more they started leaning back and back and back and I'm watching the body language and I'm trying to cut off the meeting. At the end. Of the meeting, the buyer turns around and says this has a way more complicated than I originally envisioned. I don't think we're. Ready for and he walked himself out of. The sale Major 6 figure sale. So stop selling if the buyer is ready to buy.

00:20:50 TY HENDRICKSON:

That might be the best golden nugget that we have heard so far. I mean, that is so important to know it, to know when to stop, right? If they say let's. All right, let's get started. So, well, I appreciate it. This was awesome. A lot of great information. I really appreciate you sharing all this with everybody. And you know, good luck with everything. I know you said you've had a start, a strong start to to this year. Good luck with this year and I can't wait to see how y'all do.

00:21:17 Ralph McNamara

Thank you so much, Ty. You to your team. You guys are great.