00:00:33 TY HENDRICKSON:
I'm so excited that you're here. This is such a fun podcast series that we're going through. And as you very well know, I am super passionate about the topic of selling and not being scared of it. Right, it's so hard in our profession these days. Seeing people that can do it and do it well and are bringing new business is intimidating because you don't know how in the world you're going to get from zero to rainmaker; not rainmaker, but zero to selling. You know, when you're starting out in your career or just starting out in your sales journey, so, you know, really, our goal is to. To help people see, it's not just them, right? Get past this mindset block and embrace the thought of selling and being a revenue driver in their firm. So we'll jump into it, and I'm going to ask the million-dollar question. What is or was your greatest fear when it comes to selling?
00:01:30 Adam Fisher:
Thank you for asking that question. I think it's a fear that a number of my colleagues share, and it's being seen as that sort of caricature of a pushy salesperson that is constantly in front of other people trying to push their services on them when they really don't want it. And you know, you're just going and going and going and sort of you feel like you're maybe making a fool of yourself or, you know, really not seeing the writing on the wall and what that other person is thinking that they're like, I'm just really not interested, I don't want to, you know, buy what you're offering. And that you then become seen as that as that person.
00:02:09 TY HENDRICKSON:
Yeah, that used car salesman. I know that's not all used car salesman, but that's, you know, kind of the stigma that's out there. And you know, that's selling ice to an Eskimo, you know? So selling it gets a bad rap. It gets a bad rap. Well, we're definitely going to dig into that. But tell me a little bit more about you—your role at the firm and kind of how you got there.
00:02:34 Adam Fisher:
Sure. So I'm a partner at FLSV. We're located in New York on Long Island and Garden City. I've been with the firm for almost four years now. Prior to joining FLSV, I was a director in the tax practice at Price Waterhouse Coopers, working in the banking capital markets and insurance practice.
00:02:52 TY HENDRICKSON:
So you've done it all, huh?
00:02:55 Adam Fisher:
I don't know about all. Of it, but a good portion of it.
00:02:59 TY HENDRICKSON:
That's awesome. So I think I know this answer because I know we worked together in the past, but tell me a little bit more about, you know, when selling became part of your job? How did you get started in this?
00:03:12 Adam Fisher:
Yeah, I think it's always been part of the job, whether I necessarily realize that or not. Certainly, you know, probably around, you know, when I was a manager, it really started becoming more a part of the job, and you started to focus on it more and more. But absolutely, by the time I was a director, you know, a partner, and you know, there are different levels that every firm. It really was a very large part of the job.
00:03:43 TY HENDRICKSON:
Yeah. And I know every firm's different in terms of what they require to become a partner to move up. How does your firm view business development in career progression?
00:03:56 Adam Fisher:
Yeah, I completely agree. Every firm is different, you know, and I've seen a few different firms out there, right? I think you know I could speak for myself, right? I'm sure if you ask a bunch of different people, it's a little bit different. I think you know in our firm it's part of the career progression, but we are looking for talented people who can bring many different things to the table sometimes. You have folks who are, as you referred to as, the Rainmaker. It comes very easy to them. They can go out and sell from day one, right? And that's a huge part of their job. And others, maybe they struggle a little bit more or aren't interested in doing that. So I think you know at our firm there's a role for everybody. If everyone has different strengths, they bring too. Certainly, there's going to be firms, you know, out there where it's where it's a significant portion of your job and others where it's less so. But for us, I think we were looking for the people who bring a lot to the table, and some of those people are the Rainmakers.
00:04:56 TY HENDRICKSON:
Rainmakers, you talked about. Everybody's going to. That's one of the things that kind of cracks me up in this industry is, you know, when people start to think about selling, it's automatically, well, how do I become a Rainmaker? Well, there are about seven different steps in between. You know, starting to sell, and not everybody will be a rainmaker. If you don't have anybody to do the work, that's not really a great business model, right? So tell me about when you got started in this. When you started selling, you started becoming intentional with trying to start to bring in business. How did this fear impact that early part of your business development journey?
00:05:36 Adam Fisher:
Well, it's interesting that you use the word intentional, right? I think early in my career I think the intention was to not do it, and partly that was the fear. You kind of don't know where to start, and you don't want to be seen in a certain way. And so you sort of focus on the preparation work and other deliverables rather than the selling. When it became intentional, you know, I think the fear still can get in the way, and everyone has different fears, right? But I think it can prevent you from really focusing on it. We all know in our profession we have plenty of work to do. There is no shortage of work, so it's very easy. Whatever your fear might be, whatever you're thinking about, to kind of set aside the selling and just focus on the work, because most times there isn't a shortage of work to do, and so you end up just focusing on that and really not working toward the goal of selling.
00:06:29 TY HENDRICKSON:
And then years go by, and you haven't done a thing.
00:06:33 Adam Fisher:
We live our lives by busy seasons, right? So six could go by before you know it.
00:06:40 TY HENDRICKSON:
So let me ask you this: when was the turning point where you're like, OK, I'm scared, but I'm going to do it? And how did you make that pivot?
00:06:49 Adam Fisher:
Yeah, it's a little bit hard to say. I do think around that time in my career when I was in the middle level, manager, director time frame. You know, I think there's a lot that had to do with that. I think as you progress in your career, certainly the titles themselves help you gain a little bit of confidence, right, because you've been around a little while, you feel like maybe you know some things you might be taking a little bit more seriously by the people you're trying to sell to, right? Certainly, you know in. The beginning of your career if you're trying to sell something to a tax director. They may not really be taking you so seriously, right? Because kind of like, you know how. Much do you know? But I think the time and the title helps. But you know, I think the experience really helps as well, and you know, knowing the profession a little bit better, knowing your products and services a little bit. Better help with that, yeah.
00:07:47 TY HENDRICKSON:
So I know that everybody kind of defines selling a little differently. So how do you define selling in what you do?
00:07:56 Adam Fisher:
So I define selling as providing the best service to my clients, right? And I say that intentionally because I've, you know, seen a lot of different selling, if you will, in my career, and sometimes it's selling a product, and you are just trying to see how many people you know, you can get to buy it. That's not my approach; it's really you identifying the services that will benefit your client. You know what they might need, what might help them, and then helping them to determine if this is right. And if you can get there with them and work with them as a partner to achieve their goals, then those services are good for them. They're good for, you know, me and my firm. And everybody wins at the end of the day.
00:08:45 TY HENDRICKSON:
Yeah, I love when people say, and it's so cliche, but I love when you say selling is serving, right? Selling is helping, and when you don't think of it as, you know, trying to get somebody to buy something they don't want, you're really just trying to help them. And if you're helping them, then they're gonna want. It's not really buying right. You know, it's kind of a no-brainer. So I love that that's kind of the approach you take, and I think in our industry, in accounting, consultative selling really is the way that you have to go. You have to take time to understand your clients, understand your contacts and what they need, and all that. Tell me a little bit more about, you know, maybe somewhere you found success or maybe a story of where this worked or where it kind of clicked and you were like me, and this is working.
00:09:36 Adam Fisher:
I mean, for me, probably it started more with, you know, what I'll call. Sometimes we talk about as an upsell rather you know to a current client rather than finding that you know a brand new client that's never worked for your firm and you're bringing them in that can be possibly the hardest thing to do. But then you know up selling to a current client, right, you've kind of got that relationship. You're in the door, you're working with them, and I think you know when that opportunity presented itself and I was able to identify a service that was beneficial for my client, they really did need, and we were able to talk together. Work it through and come to an arrangement where what we were going to provide is beneficial for them at the right price, right? And then in that sense, right, everyone wins. That's where I think it started to click. Like you start to realize relationships are important. The purpose behind what you're trying to do and the service that you're trying to offer is important. That started to click a little bit in terms of, you know, how to approach any situation. They're a current client, someone you know already or someone you know, completely cold, if you will, that you've just met at a conference through someone else, right? That you're meeting for the first time.
00:10:58 TY HENDRICKSON:
Yeah, so many firms are focusing on this right now. So I don't want to give away all your secrets. But you know, cross-selling or upselling or, you know, expanding services with current clients, you know, that's the low-hanging fruit, right? They already know, like, and trust you. They're already doing business with you. They wouldn't do it if they didn't trust you. How do you go about finding some of those opportunities? Tell me how you're finding some of these.
00:11:29 Adam Fisher:
I mean, that's an interesting question. I think there's a number of different ways, but I think it's just something that you know, most of us probably do already, whether we realize we're not really just learning your client. Understanding their complete business as much as you can, of course. I mean, you know, we have a particular role, but often it requires us to understand a lot of what they're doing, their processes. And that often can help you figure out, you know, what may or may not be relevant for your client. You know who are their stakeholders, who's important to them, and who do they need to deliver for? A lot of that can be, you know, a big part of kind of seeing what would work for them at the end of the day, what makes sense for them. There may be a service that, you know, could be a valuable service but not to. You know their stakeholders, not for the people that they need to deliver for. And so it would distract them from what they're really working on and may not be as relevant for them right now or in the near term.
00:12:31 TY HENDRICKSON:
So you think any of your current clients would say that you're that pushy person that's trying to sell them something they don't need?
00:12:37 Adam Fisher:
I don't think any of my current clients. I would venture to guess if I thought back through my entire career, yeah, there were probably times where you know, maybe I didn't understand my client as well as I thought, and I was pitching something that they were just like, you know, it's the last thing I need, you know? So I'm sure that has happened.
00:12:57 TY HENDRICKSON:
Oh, see, I think that you know that's just a fear, right? You think you don't want to come across, but you're right. If you don't understand your client, you are going to get it wrong sometimes, so that does tell me a little bit more about kind of when you cross that next threshold right from cross-selling or upselling or anything like that to getting that first, you know a brand new client, how did that happen?
00:13:24 Adam Fisher:
You know, it's sort of interesting. I'm not even sure I could say, you know, connect all the dots to say exactly how it happened. I think a large part of it is giving yourself. You know, bringing in those clients, it's not, you know, you don't just like sort of open the phone book, you pick a name, and you call them, and you're like hey, you know, I sold them a service. I think a lot of it has to do with, you know, over time, developing your skills, developing your network, the people you're talking to, your name is out there, and that's how you sort of get into those conversations meeting some new people where you know all of a sudden you realize, well, you know, this is someone brand new. And I'm actually talking to them about, you know, some services I can offer with my firm. And they've never been a client before. So sometimes, I think it could be a little bit hard to connect those dots for those brand-new clients. But you know, I'm thinking back to, you know, one instance where, you know, I do think a large part of it was just being out, putting yourself out there for a while, right, and letting people get to know you. And then all of a sudden, you know your name is shared in a couple of places, and you make a few connections, and then you're on the phone with a potential new client before you realize it. But that can take a little bit of time.
00:14:39 TY HENDRICKSON:
It's standing out. I was talking to my the other day that they said, you know. It was so scary in the beginning, it was so intimidating, but I finally just said, look, I'm going to take the pressure off and think, you know, what if I don't bring anything in for the next two to three years. That's fine, totally fine. And she said, you know what, when I took that pressure off, it just started flowing. You know, it just all came naturally, and it started flowing. So I think sometimes that pressure really can block us from doing what we know we need to be doing.
00:15:09 Adam Fisher:
I think the key to that, though, is you can take off the pressure, but don't forget to keep working toward the goal because sometimes you take the pressure off by just focusing on the work like we mentioned before, yeah. And then you're you before you realize that you haven't actually been working towards the goal. Yeah, but I completely agree. I think being yourself is a big part of it. Trying to make, you know, develop relationships with people.
00:15:35 TY HENDRICKSON:
Yeah, relationships is a big key. So let me ask you this, knowing that these fears never really go away, and I think anyone that says, oh, I'm totally not scared of selling anymore. I'm so good at this and I never get butterflies. You know, all that kind of stuff, I think they're liars. But you know, knowing that these things don't fully go away, how do you kind of manage these fears and keep yourself positive and just kind of like you said, on the prize, keeping the ball rolling.
00:16:05 Adam Fisher:
Well, working with you, Ty. No, I think you know it's accepting it right, knowing that it may never go away. But then, really, just for me at least, and it's going to be a little bit different for everyone. For me, it's trying to stay as up-to-date on development in the profession as I can. Staying up to date on, you know, my firm and the services we're offering and you know some of the details around that so that I can feel confident in what I'm discussing with some. I think that gives me at least the confidence to continue those discussions, to talk with more people. I think when you don't always have all those details, just sort of that you've been staying up to speed on, right, up to date on, then those fears can take over because now you might just be sounding like I'm pushing a service I'm not having a conversation with you about whether something is good for you and your company.
00:17:02 TY HENDRICKSON:
So what I'm hearing you say is it's about relationships, and it's about, you know, your knowledge and making sure you know what you're talking about, you know, to be an expert on everything you got to have confidence in what you're saying.
00:17:16 Adam Fisher:
Yeah, and I think the "expert on everything" point I would almost focus on, right? I think these days, in my own opinion, anyone who claims to be an expert in everything is being a bit disingenuous. It's so complicated now. There are so many things out there, right? And I think it's OK to tell, you know, your clients, your prospective clients, that this may not be my area, but I will get you the answer. And I think that helps in these conversations as well.
00:17:42 TY HENDRICKSON:
Yeah, for sure. Well, this has been an incredible conversation. I love that, you know, we've kind of seen start to finish, and you're definitely not, I mean, anybody listening to this or watching this would say, oh man, he's definitely a used car salesman. So, I think you have definitely gotten past that. But what I'd like to leave everybody with is your one piece of advice, what's the one thing that you wish someone had told you when you started the selling journey? Or maybe they told you, and you just didn't listen, and you wish you had?
00:18:15 Adam Fisher:
Yeah, I think it goes back to relationships, right? The relationship can take time, right? And I think some people mention it early in your career. Some probably mentioned it to me, but I'm not sure. They didn't necessarily connect it to the latter part of your career, or maybe you know myself, and I just didn't really fully, you know, understand. It, but really just working on those relationships, building them, staying in touch with people when you can is really important and really help you and pay dividends later on in your career.
00:18:48 TY HENDRICKSON:
Well, I love it. I think this has been great, and I really appreciate you taking the time to go through this, and I'm just excited to see where this takes you, and good luck with all of your selling in the future.
00:19:03 Adam Fisher:
Thank you so much for having me.
