Practical Ideas for Growth Podcast

00:01:11 Joe Brocato

Well, I appreciate that kind introduction and I'm honored to be here. So thank you so much for inviting me and right back at you. I've been following your career and you've been quite successful. So congratulations for all your success.

00:01:27 Sarah Dobek

Oh, thank you so much, Joe. You describe your book. Hit it off as exploring what's behind, hitting it off with someone when you first meet. And then after, as you continue to develop a relationship with that person. Tell us a little bit more about this.

00:01:43 Joe Brocato

Well, this really stems back for as far as I can remember. As a child really being fascinated with how people were able to step into a situation and essentially hit it off with someone else. And the first real memory I have of that is my. Paternal grandfather, who I was very, very close with. We used to watch Cubs games during the summer. Got me into playing baseball and we were fairly close and so we. He kind of hung out a lot. And he I remember he took me to a muffler store to get a new muffler for his car and we were sitting in the waiting room and it was just my grandfather and myself and another gentleman that was around his age and I was probably, I want to say, maybe 10 years old and. You were only sitting there for a relatively short period of time, say half an hour, and I couldn't believe that by the time we left. It was like my grandfather and his gentleman were best friends and I didn't say a word and I just looked and I observed, and I was impressed. Even as a 10 year old, I didn't quite know how he was able to do that. But from that point on, I've been fascinated with the concept of just. Meeting someone really. Connecting with them, quote UN quote. Hitting it off with them and then how you take that relationship and develop it for the long term and especially in business, I've been doing this. Now for more than. 30 years as an attorney and also a businessman and investor in other. In multiple industries. And so I've met thousands and thousands of people worldwide and I started really recognizing patterns for efficiency and effectiveness. When you're developing a relationship, so it's something that's near and dear to me. I love to practice at it. I don't think you ever become an expert at it. But I think everyone can do it. Remember, I started out without having any talent at all for connecting with people. And over the years, just through sheer experience. Fair amount of failure and learning from that I've developed, I believe a game plan around which just about anyone can learn to do this.

00:04:10 Sarah Dobek

I love it and I love that that's such a memorable story for you. I think also like, what a great observation at the. Age of 10. To like have that experience and recognize something that is. It is a soft skill that I I think probably would pass most 10 year olds by, so I'm not sure I believe that you didn't come into this with. Any talent I give. But I will say I might. You credit for identifying.

00:04:36 Joe Brocato

Yeah, right. And I will. Say that to this day, I really. I am surprised that I did notice that and that I was paying attention at that point and I really do think that that also really triggered me even at that early age about being conscious in the moment and really paying attention to it. And that's really the impetus for the. Entire book, and I know this is all about non traditional ways of going about doing marketing and business development and just operating your business. This, and I believe that really being present in the moment during the establishment of a relationship and then throughout the relationship, really thinking critically about relationships, you know, we we tend to walk into relationships with our own interests in mind and our own feelings and our own opinions and bias. These, and we don't recognize sometimes that there really is another person involved. It takes 2 to tango in a relationship. So really understanding how to evaluate the relationship, paying attention to what's being said, what's being done, what's not being said, people's mannerisms, etcetera. And being conscious. And aware of that. That's really the underpinning for the book.

00:05:54 Sarah Dobek

I love it. I absolutely love it and it in about us, we are such big believers in relationship and it being such a core foundation that runs through everything and and what I heard. To say is that this has been a thread that has helped you develop in all the various aspects of probably what you consider your career, which there's, you know, there's a few prongs in there that you mentioned, right, you know, but talk to us a little bit more about how that really more deeply helped you and made you successful in some of those. Areas that you've you've been working in?

00:06:30 Joe Brocato

Well, I guess the, you know, one of the keys is really how I was able to really through osmosis and just share experience, a lot of luck as well really stumble on ways to make what I do. I IE not only practicing law but developing business for my law firm. Over many years. More efficient and more effective. And what I found was by being very sensitive to critical thinking around relationships, I've been able to develop a vast and deep network of contacts and relationships globally. That fuels my confidence in terms of the value I. Can bring to people. And I've seen a couple a. Couple of times I've been tested in this regard. How strong are the relationships I had? And I remember back to, you know, when I changed law firms, I've only changed law firms once, and I had to make calls to my clients about the fact that I was moving. And in the lawyer client relationship, it's purely up to the client to decide where they want to go. And I was so humbled that my clients wanted to follow me. And I realized that the reason for that was because I just really, really worked hard to develop my relationship with the with those clients. So the concept of really being able to build. Solid strong unique relation. Ships, relationships that are difficult, if not impossible to replace is really critical for developing your practice.

00:08:19 Sarah Dobek

But like I mean, I couldn't agree more and there probably be a whole other conversation that we have about like that, that whole thing. But you know, I think so many professionals run into that. So, so much of professional services, accounting, law, engineering. I don't care what service field you're in is based on the relationship because that relationship. To add value at the end of the day, I mean you if you can't get information out of them if you can't understand their fears, you can't have a deep enough conversation to get to. The right information. You know, we can't. We can't even begin to add value and. Whatever it is we're delivering to them, whatever the service is.

00:08:59 Joe Brocato

Completely agree and part of the relationship concept is about. Really understanding who you are as a human being, really being your authentic self and on social media as we prepare. To launch the book. I'm posting a lot about topics that are very much related to the 21 rules in. The book and. Basically have to start with the first person that. Is in the relationship and that's. And so who are you? Have you dug down deep inside to really determine who you are at core in essence, and are you bringing that into the relationship? That's really, really important. Because when you're trying to establish emotional connection with someone, you really have. To understand who you. Are and a lot of times we're just so busy and distracted we don't take the time to really discover ourselves. So that's important when we're trying, you mentioned getting to know people and understanding what they need and what they want. You have to. Know what you want first and you have to be able to set authentic goals because science shows that you set authentic goals for the relationship from the start. Those are goals tied to who you are at core, you're much more likely to achieve the goal you're going to. Have more enjoyable time pursuing the goal, and if you satisfy the goal, you achieve that goal. You're just going to be happier and so that allows you to really deepen the emotional connection, which is really a basic human need, which is a big highlight in my book. How do you establish that emotional connection? And I believe that 21 rules really gives us. A game plan to do that.

00:10:31 Sarah Dobek

Yeah, Speaking of of your rules, right, you you mentioned in one of your Instagram posts cause your book isn't out just yet and so waiting for my preview copy, by the way, from your publisher.

00:10:45 Joe Brocato

You can get it.

00:10:45 Sarah Dobek

Right. That you know you want. To help people learn what everyone wants and how to give it to them. Right. And that sounds like a billion dollar? Question to me. Right. And can you share a little bit more just a little preview with our audience on you know what you're talking about here and maybe like a practical, you know?

00:11:05 Joe Brocato

Well, this is a really, really important one because you want to build up a deep, vast network so you can actually provide value to other people and. And so the the first step is really building that, that network that's very robust. And I think the. Thinking back to college, when I was rushing for a frat, I went to a commuter campus college and there were no frat houses to speak with. But I went and talked to all of them. And one of the main benefits was sitting at their lunch table during lunchtime, and if you join their fret, you had to sit at their lunch table during lunch time. You could say where else so I ended up meeting all these people and I ended up really liking everybody and I just couldn't pick one over the other and I figured, hey, if I don't join any of the frets. Because wherever I wanted lunch time, and so that's what I ended up doing and and and that was really the first time I I, I developed a pretty vast network of friends in college. So when I became a senior and ran for student government presidents, I got elected and I attribute that to the fact that I was able to really develop a lot of people that I knew. Same thing in business. And so that's why I do a lot of business development, networking and it's. Absolutely critical, because if you simply ask people and this is the simple thing to do, how can? I help you grow your business. You'd be surprised sometimes at how much people will tell you, and if you have that vast network of value to provide to them now, there's a lot of synergy, mutual benefits, and that's where you help establish that emotional connection. And that's where that unique relationship comes in, because a lot. Of people may not be able to do that. So if you are able to do that now, you've really created a uniqueness that they're not gonna be able. To find in too many. Places and my book is is heavily weighted with science. What I did is I really went through intuitively what I thought were really important things to keep in mind, patterns that I've noticed, and suggestions that I would make for people. But then I did a lot of research, scientific research. Business studies, psychological studies, sociological studies, commentary, etc. From experts and what I realized was that there is science that providing value to people in this way really strengthens, strengthens relationships. And really contributes to that connection and the satisfaction that both people have and most importantly, it promotes feelings of gratitude. And if people do feel grateful for what you have done for them because you've been able to build up the vast network of value. And provide it. To them, then, they're going to want to return the favor. And that's how you get to satisfaction of your authentic goal and that's how you grow your business. So that's just one way that we tried to provide a game plan with these 21 rules. I think. About it too is like a Swiss army knife. You know, what do you need when you need? That use each rule as you need it and use it to accomplish your goal at that particular time. So that's pretty much the the the idea around the 21 rules, not just to have one thing that you could do but 21 things that can help you build your your book of business.

00:14:36 Sarah Dobek

And I love it. And I love that you talk about it. The we talk about the law of. Reciprocity all the time, right? And it's innate in the human nature, right? It's just built into us. There's studies that have been on like, you know, something that was done for a country in like, 20 or 30 years later or 50 years later, that country went out of their way to. Reciprocate something right and it could have been that long before that was reciprocated. But it is absolutely in our human nature to want to help other people. And I love that you that you talk about that simple question, right? How can I help you grow your business? Because the answer is not the thing that we're always looking for, right? It's not the obvious answer, right? If I'm sitting across from you. Right. And you're asking me that you might think like? Like she's gonna say, help me with my legal needs, right? Like whole broad spectrum of what that is. But the reality is I could come back and often probably would come back with something totally off the wall. That could be minor and simple, but super impactful to me at the end of the day.

00:15:39 Joe Brocato

It's it's a very interesting question to ask. It's very simple. And people frankly, really enjoy answering it because we're all there to help each other out. And if they know your you care. About them and you want. To help them, it really creates a tight relationship.

00:15:57 Sarah Dobek

So you know, part of this series that we're doing right now that you're participating in on this podcast is really about those non traditional contributions to growth. And we've heard a lot about how this has helped you in your career. What I always want to know from the the folks that we interview is what were some of the roadblocks that you face and how do you overcome them? Because we all face robots. And we do not talk about them enough. And so I think it's it I want to normalize, right this this thing that like we don't just make it to success, right, we don't just become an author you know overnight. So what were some of those roadblocks you faced on your path to success? Whether writing this book or or otherwise?

00:16:39 Joe Brocato

Well, it's a great question. And I'd probably have to answer it, depending on what period of my life we're talking about, because believe it or not, at one point I was younger and I was just starting out. And when I started. Out trying to develop business and establish relationships. For for my law firm. I was young and I was a new lawyer and sometimes youth comes off a little bit as naive, maybe lack of experience. Maybe you don't have the ability to really handle our projects and so you run into that a lot as a younger professional. And I learned very early that when I did see successes, it was because of the type of relationship that I developed. And so you you have to leverage the talent that you have and if you're younger and you don't have the 30 years of experience, you have to know to bring in resources that will help you. So you have to have good relationships with your colleagues. You have to have the ability to request their assistance to help you achieve your goal, and that's what I did. So when I needed people to attend meetings with me when I needed someone. To provide more. I had to lead and we. Went out, we got the business. Fast forward after having fair amount of experience both as an attorney but also as a business developer. My biggest obstacle and and this is true, I think for a lot of professionals is just the sheer level of competition that is out there. You know I have. Experience in in many different things. I've never had experience until I became more senior attorney in really being confident, going after larger and larger clients and competing with very, very large law firms. That's a unique opportunity even to be able to do. That you know. My firm, Gazdecki del. Judas Americas, Ferguson, Brocato it's a mouthful. But I just wanted to get it out there and I've I've been honored to be a partner here since March of 2014 and we're a boutique. We have a very high level of sophistication with a boutique firm rate structure, so our value proposition is very compelling. So it's my job to go to a larger client who has very sophisticated work and really explain how our value proposition is attractive and why they should consider. Working with us versus perhaps a very large law firm and so. That's been an. However, how do you get over that? It's the common denominator, and it's the uniqueness of the relationships that I try to build. It's the ability immediately to hit it off with someone which is not a guarantee. It doesn't happen all the time, but you want to maximize the likelihood that it does, and I've been using these 21 rules. Intuitively, for many, many years and now I really try to harness them when I'm out getting very, very competitive business or trying to get very, very competitive business. So and you said something earlier on about being willing to talk about this, and I it's vulnerability, I'm more than happy to talk about all the times I didn't get the client because that's happened plenty of times. However, you learn from all of your experiences, including your. Failures and so those are obstacles in and of themselves, because a lot of people look at a failure as an obstacle. It's really a gateway to success because it allows you to take a step back, take a look at what worked, what didn't work and again to tie it into the critical thinking around relationships is really the essence of my message. You learn from that. And you're able to dissect what? What went right, what went wrong, and the next time you just get back up on the horse. And you try to win the race.

00:21:01 Sarah Dobek

Ohh, I love it. Failure is the gateway to to success. I I couldn't agree more. Here with that statement and I would say right that I think bringing your authentic self to that relationship is a means of. Qualification right, we we have so most professionals I talked to today have more business than that they can handle especially in the public accounting profession. And so the idea of like how do we qualify you. You know, part of it is being yourself, right and developing and trying to develop a connection. And and you are not going to be everybody's cup of tea, right? You can connect with a lot of people. You can find ways to bring and develop those authentic relationships, but at the end of the day you will not be everybody's cup of tea, and so sometimes those failures aren't really failures. This qualification I am a firm believer, by the way, that you can always be better at whatever you're doing like it's a it's a lens I look through on a daily basis. It drives the people around me, you know, challenges them and probably drives them bonkers at. The same time. But I Love this idea and this concept of being able to bring that authentic self and and you know it shows up in so many different ways of adding value to that relationship and the sales process and the client process and and just in life in general.

00:22:22 Joe Brocato

Well, they always say people do business with people they like, that they trust, etcetera, etcetera. And very prudent purchasers of professional services. It's the context that we're talking about now. Are very smart and they can see right through a facade. Are they dealing with someone who's genuine, that they're really going to be able to trust? So if you walk into a relationship, especially when you first meet someone. And they just don't. Get a warm level of comfort. That they're dealing with someone who is authentic and genuine. Then you have a much lower likelihood of making that first impression count and then having the ability to take it to the next level. So I completely agree with.

00:23:13 Sarah Dobek

You absolutely. I love it. Well, Joe, as we wrap up, do you? Have any final? Tip or piece of advice that you would like to leave with our listeners.

00:23:24 Joe Brocato

I think we just go back to the topic we're talking about the non traditional way of going about marketing and developing business. Think critically about your relationships. Think about, not necessarily. Just thinking through your feelings and your biases and your opinions in a. Relationship pay attention. To the facts, what's working?  What's not communication skills? And really evaluate them critically and make judgments about how to do something better the next time, how to improve a relationship. And really, the three pillars that I really want people to remember be authentic. And really, create authentic goals for each relationship you're in. Establish a pillar #2. Establish an emotional connection with people to create that unique relationship. That's difficult, if not impossible to replace, because when you do that, you're hitting a basic human need that's going to go a long way, and then three have. A game plan. You have to have a disciplined way to go about developing relationships, and I would postulate that the 21 rules in my book can be your game plan and I. Would welcome and be. Honored for all of your listeners to. To read the book when it's published.

00:24:44 Sarah Dobek

Awesome, awesome, Joe. Much for joining us. To our listeners, when that book is released, we will put some links in our. Post show notes. So stay tuned and listen for more about that.

00:24:59 Joe Brocato

Well, Mark your calendars, everyone May 1st, 2023. It'll be available everywhere and again can't thank you enough here for inviting me. And I look forward to chatting again.

00:25:13 Sarah Dobek

Well, I can't wait to read it. Thank you, Joe.